INTERVIEW: UNAMID chief Gambari addresses complaints of Darfuris

Here follows a verbatim transcript of the telephone interview of Professor Ibrahim Gambari, African Union – United Nations Joint Special Representative (JSR), with Radio Dabanga, 7 October 2010. Recording transcribed by the Press & Information Division of UNAMID. JSR GAMBARI: I am delighted to be on this interview. I understand that there are many listeners, and this is an opportunity, in the absence of our own radio, that is Radio UNAMID, to be able, at least, to connect through this medium to your listeners. As you know, my name is Professor Ibrahim Gambari from Nigeria, but jointly appointed by the African Union and United Nations, as the Joint Special Representative and Head of the United Nations – African Union Mission in Darfur known as UNAMID.  RADIO DABANGA: Professor Gambari, can we have the latest information regarding the situation of UNAMID?  JSR GAMBARI: The very latest is that the Security Council of the United Nations, the 15 members will be arriving shortly, within the next hour, so that they can assess for themselves the situation in Darfur, and also receive messages from communities including the IDP camps and also from us, as UNAMID.  The way we see the situation in Darfur at the moment is as follows: First, the first half of this year, when I was appointed and took up the position, there was a lot of hope, because you recall in February in Doha, there was the framework agreement signed between the Government of Sudan and JEM, which was to be followed by a ceasefire agreement; secondly, there was a framework agreement followed by a ceasefire signed between the GoS and LJM led by, as you know, Tijani Sesay. There was also the Rapprochement, the accord signed between the governments of Sudan and Chad. And so, there was hope that perhaps that finally, we may be moving in the direction of peace. As a matter of fact, in these first six months, the security situation had improved such that, more people were being killed as a result of tribal conflicts than they were as a direct confrontation between GoS and the armed movements.  RADIO DABANGA: Professor Gambari, regarding the situation in Darfur, we know that your mission is to protect civilians, and the prolongation of your mandate by the UN Security Council has also stressed that. Can I give you two situations regarding Hejra and Hamadiya camps? What were the situation there and the accusations of IDPS regarding UNAMID to be unbiased?  JSR GAMBARI: Well, first of all many people criticize UNAMID when things go wrong. Now we don’t always get credit for when we are doing things right. But we expect that. However, I want to tell you that UNAMID remains neutral. Our mandate is to protect civilians. By the end of this year we will be almost fully deployed, and I have given strict instruction to my military and the police that we must react swiftly, we must act robustly, in order to implement our mandate. I will be able to give an account of what we have been doing so far to the Security Council when they come here. We are also going to tell them our constraint because first we cannot be everywhere every time because, as you know, Darfur is a big region, and at the best of time we may be up to 25,000 soldiers. That is significant, but we need help.  We need to build trust and confidence between us and the people so they can give us information when there is bound to be trouble, because there is no use coming when people have been killed, even if you come as fast as possible after the event.  Secondly, we have made it clear to the Government and Armed Movements that they must not restrict our movement, the movement of UNAMID, movement troops and patrol because SOFA provides for us to have freedom of movement. The movement must not be interrupted by anybody.  Finally, we have been telling the government, and very clearly, privately and publicly, that impunity must not be tolerated, because if people get away with attacking people, the civilian population, then the incentive for them to stop is not there.  There is the final point which I want to make, which is that in the past, criminal elements used to pick on UNMAID. They kill our troops, they kidnap our soldiers and policemen, and they harass and carjack. Now you will notice in the last two months or so, we have given very firm, strict instructions, that when UNAMID is attacked, we have the right of self-defense. We have the robust rule of engagement. In any case we remind everybody, that attacking UNAMID peacekeepers is a war crime for which people are going to be held accountable sooner than later. So our ability to protect civilians in Darfur is related to our ability to protect ourselves because charity begins at home. And you will notice there has been a decline in the number of attacks against peacekeepers. And therefore we also want to see a decline in civilian attacks. We will do our part, and we also call on everybody else to do their part.  RADIO DABANGA: Professor Gambari, Head of UN Mission in Darfur, also there was a document that has been published, a correspondence between you and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Sudan, regarding handing over of some IDPS to the Government of Sudan, what about that?  JSR GAMBARI: First of all, I will never comment on the leaking of confidential communication between the GoS, or anybody else and UNAMID. Imagine if I was to have confidential communication between myself and SLA Abdul Wahid, which I have had. I have been to Paris twice to meet him. I have just come back from Tripoli where I met with Khalil Ibrahim. I will never comment on anybody leaking such private communication.  But the facts of the matter are as follows. We have five Sheiks who are in our community Policing centre in Kalma camp. They have been accused of some very serious offences. We are not taking sides whether these charges are true or false. But, what we insist on is that if they were to be tried, they have to have free and fair trial. UNAMID has to be present and observe this trial because they came to us, and that the entire process has to meet international humanitarian standard. We are discussing back and forth, and I am very confident that very soon we will get a resolution of the matter.  We respect the sovereignty of Sudan. Also we respect Sudanese laws. We are here to protect civilian population, but we are not here to protect anybody who may engage in criminal activities. In any case, we have also said that, the earlier we can address the issue of disarmament in the camps, the better for everybody: the people in the camps, the people in the neighborhood, and the people of Sudan.  RADIO DABANGA: Professor Gambari, also regarding the Hamadiya camp, Adam Boush was bleeding when he was attacked by the armed elements in the Hamadiya camp in Zalingei. He was taken, and UNAMID police itself were going to cure him. But they let him bleed to death. What do you have to say?  JSR GAMBARI: Well, it is very unfortunate. I want to seize this opportunity to send my condolences to all those who have lost their lives as a result of this very tragic, and unfortunate attack on the camp. I want to assure that UNAMID does not condone; we continue to do everything possible to protect, we will do everything possible to extend medical assistance to those in need. But many times, even in the case of the Tabarat market incident, we sent our patrol but we were prevented from gaining access by some element claiming to be SLA Historical Faction, and also subsequently by Government troops.  We need to have freedom of movement so that we can react promptly to any such situations, so that we can provide medical assistance to those in need. Don’t forget, right there in West Darfur, as well as inSouth Darfur, we have level 2 hospitals, well equipped in case of El Geneina and also Nyala, very well equipped. We provide services not just to our own UNAMID personnel, but to the community at large. We should be allowed to give help promptly to those in need and we condemn all these attacks. We sympathize with the families of the deceased, but at the same time we want to be able to do the best we can for those who require our assistance medically and otherwise.  RADIO DABANGA: Professor Gambari, Head of UNAMID in Darfur, also you talk about incapacity or inaccessibility of UNAMID when there are incidents like what happened in Shajara, what happened in East of Jebel Mara and Hamadiya in Zalingei. At the same time there is information that UNAMID is helping the Southern Darfur Government to make a trench around the city of Nyala as a precautionary measure for security purposes, is that within the mandate of UNAMID to build trenches?  JSR GAMBARI: You will agree with me, and your leaders will agree with me, that much of the attacks by criminal elements, carjacking, hostage taking and even the shooting and killing of people, have been directed at UNAMID and international personnel. So we have to do whatever we need to do to protect ourselves, to enhance security for UNAMID personnel and other international Aid agency personnel in South Darfur, and in any way contribute whatever we can do to enhance our security, for the people, the civilian population in Darfur. So the specific thing you have mentioned, about the trenches, is just one of the ways in which we believe that we can help to enhance security and protect ourselves, protect aid workers, protect other international personnel who are here, leaving their families and trying to help the people of Darfur, and therefore we cannot just watch and let all these criminal activities targeted at us continue.  RADIO DABANGA: Professor Gambari, also many IDPS and civilians say they have lost trust in UN since its deployment in 2008. Some observers say this is a result of the peacekeepers not being critical enough to GOS and how it prevents UNAMID movement and from examining and maximizing its operation, how do you see this?  JSR GAMBARI: First, privately and publicly through the reports which UNAMID makes to the Security Council, the Secretary General Report, and this is public document, we absolutely state where we have been restricted, who is restricting our movement, and the Security Council acts accordingly, also the Secretary General himself. And of course the African Union that is a part- owner of this UNAMID.  We will continue to speak out privately and publicly whenever we think that our movement is restricted.  About the trust and confidence, well, look at what UNAMID has been doing. UNAMID has been very proactive in trying to search for peace in Darfur. We want to stop all the fighting because that is the fundamental job, to stop the fighting, stop the killing. We have been involved in promoting traditional systems and process of conflict resolution among the tribes. Look at Kalma, when the problem started there, we patrolled the camp 24 hour a day. We have reduced the tension there. Calm has returned.  There many things we are also doing with UNAMID assets, to really contribute to the welfare of the people of Darfur. So we will continue. But as you know, trust and confidence is two way. We would like for example to be able receive prior information if it is known by the communities in the camp and elsewhere, that an attack is imminent. Because it is better for us to act to prevent rather than go there after the attacks have taken place.  So we will continue on our own. We will work with the civil society, we will work with the IDPs, and we will work with the refugees. Our Civil Affairs and Political Affairs departments are engaged in developing trust and confidence. During the last Ramadan in Kalma, our people had Iftar for more than 200 of the communities living in Kalma. As a matter of fact, when the last incident happened, and many people were leaving, as a result of the activities of UNAMID which I have mentioned, involving our military, police and civilian components, a number of the people who left the camp are in fact returning.  So we will continue to do this because that is our job, and two, we recognize that our ultimate responsibility, the focal point, our main mandate is the protection of civilians and to facilitate the delivery of humanitarian assistance to those in need. So I believe that with our activities and with appropriate response, the trust and confidence between UNAMID, IDP camps and residents will actually increase and deepen.  RADIO DABANGA: Professor Gambari, Head of UNAMID in Darfur, also there are about 90 flights that have been forbidden by the Sudanese Government in South Darfur, have you any comment on that?  JSR GAMBARI: I said all restrictions, whether on land, whether in the air, are not acceptable. The SOFA is there. We have them translated into Arabic. Sometimes we have found out that we get clearances and permission from Khartoum but people on the ground don’t always respect these instructions from Khartoum. We are liaising and talking constantly with the government, military to military, police to police, at my level with the senior government officials, and we are really addressing the issues. For example, there is a Joint Action Plan that we now want to put in place, between the government and UNAMID. There is an MOU between UNAMID Police and Sudanese Police to address all these issues of restrictions. I can tell you and tell your readers, that some of the restrictions on the use of tactical helicopters have been lifted, and we hope to be able to use them much more freely now than in the past.  RADIO DABANGA: Professor Gambari, also there are complaints that UNAMID is always late when there are events in Darfur, for example, this morning we have reports from West Jebel Mara that there are some bombing, some shelling, still we don’t have full details. Is UNAMID there now?  JSR GAMBARI: As I mentioned to you at the beginning of this interview, you cannot be everywhere every time. But we are in most parts of Darfur. We work closely with the NGOs, both local and international, and anybody who can help us with information. We have patrols. We send our patrols out, and we continue to do that and improve our ability to get at facts because we cannot repeat rumors. We have to be able to verify because we are a Mission. We are a credible Mission established by the UN and AU. But we cannot be commenting on things that we have not verified. So to the extent that we can verify, we will do so. And we will give the facts, as we know them. But once again, I want to use this opportunity to ask those who have information to help us, to please feel free to do so.  RADIO DABANGA: I was just handing you the fresh information from East Jebel Mara, that there was shelling in the areas of Gournei, Shartugo and Khor Ela.  JSR GAMBARI: Thank you very much for this, and we are going to verify this. We are going to get to the story. I will be able to confirm from my own sources and react accordingly.  RADIO DABANGA: Is UNAMID going to handover those who are wanted by the Sudanese government in the aftermath of events of Kalma and Hamadiya IDP camps?  JSR GAMBARI: We are continuing to consult with the government of Sudan, and our position is very clear that whatever is done, has to be done (a) with the view to respecting the sovereignty of Sudan, respecting Sudanese laws and but also respecting the international norms and conventions on how best to handle these situations. The conversation is going on and we believe we are close to an agreement. And incidentally, I will have to leave very shortly for reasons I told you at the start of this interview, so if you have one last question, I will be able to take it.  RADIO DABANGA: Before finishing, what are the future measures to further protection of IDPS and civilians in Darfur, UNAMID is going to take?  JSR GAMBARI: I told you that we are better prepared now. We are enhancing our operational capability to respond quicker, to respond much more effectively. We have demonstrated that we can deter attacks and defend ourselves when attacked but now the next step is to enhance our operational capability and also to reduce response time between when we know what is happening and when we react. I think from now on it is very likely that you will see an improvement in the implementation of our mandate to protect, which is always on top of my agenda and that of UNAMID.  RADIO DABANGA: Professor Ibrahim Gambari, thank you very much from the listeners of Radio Dabanga. Is there anything else you would like to add?  JSR GAMBARI: I would just to thank you and I hope that there will be many more [interviews], because this is important, not just not to be repeating accusations against UNAMID but to really let the people know what we are doing, how we are doing it, what our constraints are, and to also help us with valuable information so that we can prevent attacks rather than simply to respond. So, once again, I thank you very for this, and I thank your listeners. And I look forward to coming back again. Thank you.